Fitness 

Episode 006 – Freezma Fitness – Sales without Selling – NOT The Rob Bell Podcast

FREEZMA: What's the structured sales approach or the giving without expectation of building a brand? It's those two things which is so different, but you just kind of have to find how you can work together Now, it's just so competitive in terms of the capturing of the initial attention causes just so many voices and people on the platform

There was no real expectation or anything on the on the other end of it I just thought it was cool to be able to get my message out to people who I felt could benefit from it OPENING TITLES: Welcome to Not the Rob Bell podcast, where we talk with business owners, marketers and professionals to extract what makes people and businesses successful Hey, everyone, thanks for tuning into Not the Rob Bell podcast Up next, I've got Freezma Fitness

With six and a half million YouTube views and one hundred and forty thousand people on his social media We talk to him about all things content and how to convert those likes into sales It's coming up now Hey, everyone We anticipated this podcast as being a weekly event, but we thought with everything going on right now, that twice weekly would be twice as good

So we might not hold this forever And we may go back to weekly, but enjoy the extra episodes right now So, Freezma Thank you so much for coming on the podcast It's really great to virtually see you FREEZMA: You too brother

Good to be here ROB: And so you're holed up in isolation in sunny Brisbane or somewhere there FREEZMA: Yeah, yeah, just down on the Gold Coast, so I'm very fortunate to be I think this is probably one of the best places to be in isolation Honestly

ROB: It could be worse It could be a, you know, minus 20 and snowing outside, right FREEZMA: Exactly, and it's not here, so we're cool ROB: So, like, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you is I know that you're you're obviously currently you're a very prominent, you know, YouTuber very active on Instagram and Facebook, that sort of thing But one of the interesting things about your profile on YouTube especially is that you've been doing it for quite some time

And, you know, I mean, your profile says it was created about 2011 I think you were posting pretty actively back then as well Can you tell us, like, you know really briefly how that's kind of changed over almost 10 years of of YouTube? Because it's a pretty different space to what it started out as FREEZMA: Yeah, it's crazy, so, I mean, the one thing that's really changed now is that there's a lot of saturation in it compared to when I first got into it, then that's all of it But I think that's the most obvious change

That's with anything Instagram, Facebook, all of them, you know what I mean? So I was fortunate enough to be starting what I was doing in the beginning But in a sense, as well, the head the mindset of being in social media back then wasn't really so much what it is now I think a lot of people get into it because they see the opportunities, whereas back then when I was kind of doing it, I could see the opportunity in terms of There's no doubt when you're building a community of people following you, there's this benefit to that

But really, in terms of kind of knowing about like business and the monetisation side of it, it wasn't kind of clear cut like it is now I think people just see it is a very powerful tool But I think back then, more of the creators on there, were just more it was more I feel like it a bit more authentic personally, but Yeah ROB: One thing we haven't mentioned is that you're obviously like in the fitness space and compete in physique competitions and, you know, provide personal training and that sort of thing

And so and it really has evolved in particular in that space But when you first started out, you were probably more just documenting your journey and sharing what you were doing with no real sort of business intention in mind FREEZMA: Yeah, yeah There was no real expectation or anything on the on the other end of it It was more so

I just thought it was cool to be able to get my message out to people who I thought could benefit from it, you know? ROB: And because, I mean, the whole the volume of traffic has changed pretty substantially, too I mean, you've got 40000 followers on, 40000 subscribers on YouTube and about 140000 between YouTube, Instagram and Facebook But I mean, back 10 years ago, having 500 followers was, you know, pretty good And having a couple of thousand was sort of a big deal Right? FREEZMA: Definitely, man

It's insane because, I mean, personally, I actually started on Facebook was my where I started with most of my posting and building an audience YouTube was I think I just ended up uploading a couple of vids that did good on Facebook I just put them on YouTube because I wasn't on Youtube as much, but I just kind of got them up for the sake of it And then it was probably I must have been around 2014, 2015 I started seeing, like YouTube was really where it was at in terms of building a close and deep relationship with people because Facebook just started to cut its reach and promote a bit more marketing

So it was a couple of years there where it just really just slashed the kind of reach that I had felt that on my Facebook page So I think that's when I kind of turned more to YouTube ROB: Because early on Facebook page algorithm was it really would weight it almost the same as having a friend, whereas now they're really geared towards, you know, it's a pay to play sort of sort of operation And, you know, it does get some reach But there was a very marked change in how those, you know, those likes on Facebook would actually be able to engage with your content and without without them liking or sharing or something, you know, and providing a real hard interaction

There was there was so little of your content actually getting seen FREEZMA: Yeah, it's insane Like like literally back when Facebook, you know, when I was first on it, the reach was just like for perspective Yeah Maybe I would have like it was definitely a huge percentage of people seeing every post that I ever did

It was It must have been upwards of 80 percent outside seeing ROB: Wow FREEZMA: Everything Definitely ROB: And so was that when you saw the most of the growth in in Facebook originally was like did you or what it was it still sort of comparable to YouTube in terms of volume? FREEZMA: Definitely not

Facebook was like where it really started for me That's because even I feel like YouTube didn't really even start to get Because now YouTube is like extremely popular It probably didn't start to get more on the popular side until maybe like three years ago, I'd say I see a lot more people that are on YouTube watching YouTube videos, doing research through YouTube and all that But I think you

Yeah, before like in 2016, 2015, YouTube was still even though Youtube has been around since 2009 Still I feel like it wasn't even mainstream back then I feel it's just the last three years Maybe Youtube has become a bit more mainstream But for me, Facebook was always that was the platform that most people were on anyway

You know, in terms of whether you're looking for stuff to follow, like everyone's on there for their friends and their connections, it's that network So that was a real big one for me, building my brands at the start in terms of who I am and my fit ness content Facebook was huge for me for sure And then and then, like I said, once they started slashing the reach and going, more towards that paid model You know, they want you to advertise for your followers to see

That's when I transitioned into YouTube because YouTube wasn't doing that So it's just, you know, a lot more bang for your buck, I guess, on YouTube And I like on YouTube, it's it's more long form content So you can really get a lot more of a message out there is on Facebook People scrolling feeds and they're not always there for long form

They just want to scroll past us ROB: Yeah, I mean, there's really a it's sort of about platform appropriate content, and I guess as a content creator, how do you approach that these days where, you know, Instagram has has really that small nugget content Facebook has, you know, from a minute to ten minutes maybe, you know, or going to long form and then YouTube I mean, their algorithm is specifically geared to ten minutes plus So how do you how do you approach that from a content creation standpoint and how you kind of think about that ahead of time? FREEZMA: Yeah, I mean, this is definitely like it's funny because for me, I have always put a lot of my focus on YouTube, but I've always done Instagram as well in terms of Facebook

My you know, quite often I don't even have a posting strategy for Facebook Um, I just share something oddly from my Instagram because there is a little bit of audience there But I've been pretty slack with that I've really kind of just gone off Facebook So mainly like my

My business is pretty leveraged on Instagram and and YouTube But it's interesting, even with YouTube, like I always kind of underated Instagram, I thought I you know, it's just too short form Can't build as much of a connection with people But the Instagram has always really supplemented my YouTube very well So I pick up a lot of clients in terms of my my online personal training

They'll almost get the they know who I am from YouTube because they've watched some long format for my videos I feel like they can get a better gauge on me personally And then Instagram is kind of that communication platform where people can actually DM me and say, hey, you know, I want to be a client or something like that So you message me about when I share some Gym Steeze like some photos on Instagram with the new Gym Steeze They'll say oh yeah looks cool and but whereas YouTube doesn't really have that communication aspect to it

So I think that's kind of Something that's Yeah I've always thought Youtube is the main thing But Instagram's just as important for me anyway, because that's where I have a lot of interaction with people ROB: Yeah, I mean, it is interesting watching I mean, YouTube comment fields are notoriously trollish in terms of, FREEZMA: They're very trolly, yeah exactly, right

ROB: And it's very interesting to watch, whereas on Instagram it is fairly personal and, you know, still the Internet But it's a you know, it is more engaging in in the conversation And whereas YouTube seems to be just just strange comments around other FREEZMA: Yeah, yeah ROB: You know, the dog in the background of FREEZMA: I'll tell you why It's because people who have YouTube accounts There's nothing personal links to it

It's it's Whereas Instagram people are on Instagram, again, similar to Facebook because of what the connections are, friends and everything on there They're posting their lives Most people don't have a YouTube account where they're actively showing their profile So it just I guess that's got to be the reason why because

Yeah I mean, this is still anonymous anonymous accounts on Instagram But ROB: Sure And you can create a new one quickly but it helps reduce that that incidence rate So you touched on something interesting there

You've got your Gym Steeze merch store and that sort of thing One thing I think that people really over estimate or maybe underestimate is how easily they can just slip in and just pummel ads into content And, you know, obviously, that's that's how, well one of your revenue streams for monetising content is by selling merchandise How have you found or what do you see that the mistakes or the things that really do work for you in terms of not getting too hard on the sell and and engaging and, you know, content first and and sell second because people are developing a connection with you and then want to support you sort of as a secondary thing, you know Got any thoughts around that? FREEZMA: Yeah, I think it's I mean, it's it's a really deep

Yeah, I like the idea of just doing more of a sales tactic and then providing good quality content with no expectation It's so different Yet they both have their time and place You know what I mean? So realistically Yeah

A lot of the time when I say, oh, yo, guys, I'm doing a new Gym Steeze launch here's the stuff There is a percentage of people buying because they like the way it looks there's a percentage of people buying because they like my brand and who I am and they want to support me And because they appreciate content that I'll put out for free for so many year, or the way I make them feel, whether it's a message or something like that But, you know, there's that factor which kind of still comes into that decision to purchase or buy into the brands So it's

They both exist, but they're they're both, you know, sometimes I feel like for me personally, I'm not a hard enough seller I I am too, in the mind space of just putting out good stuff just without trying to monetise it But then I think sometimes that screws me up because I'm not consistent in terms of like It's different for Gym Steeze, I feel I feel like Gym Steeze is perfect because it's like, even some of my coaching

There's an interesting relationship there where you'll see some people, they're more structured in terms of their sales and they're just trying to do sales But they actually can be quite successful at that if they've got a good product And then there's that other side I said of, you know, you're giving out stuff without the expectation But a lot of the time then when you do hit them with a sell, well, there's something to buy that, you know, your audience is interested in They get amongst it because they appreciate all the hours you've put out without asking for anything

So ROB: Because I mean, it's a really counterproductive, oh, sorry, counterintuitive strategy for a lot of our clients work, you know, in a more typical space And when it comes to pure social media advertising, it's it's fairly easy to demonstrate the metrics on that You can you can push a you know, advertise a product through social media, with paid advertising, with a reliable return and a, you know, reliable cost per click and all that sort of thing But this strategy is a little bit harder to put, you know, clear roadmap on and demonstrate

If you put out a hundred videos and, you know, a thousand hours of content, then you will be able to sell You know, it's really hard to demonstrate that without actually doing it because it is such a dynamic thing But FREEZMA: Yeah, yeah ROB: And I think what you've touched on there in terms of monetising and all the rest is I think a lot of people think most of the revenue comes from YouTube monetisation, you know, for a for a YouTuber or someone doing vlogging and things like that I think there is an assumption that a lot of the money comes from actual, you know, views and monetised videos

But from my understanding, it's it is more about the merchandising and that's sort of secondary sales The the online coaching, the merchandise store, all that sort of thing Is that sort of true to what you how you sort of see things? FREEZMA: Yeah, definitely a lot of people assume that monetisation is a real big thing and Youtube and they assume that if I see someone who looks like they're really successful, one YouTube with money and stuff like that, a lot of people assume it's mainly from the ads on the YouTube vids And this to an extent But yeah, like when you actually look at the percentages of it

Like what? In terms of what I get paid, even even I know people who do make good money from the ads But then again, they've got, you know, a few hundred thousand subscribers to be making kind of all right just off the monetisation But what that pays in terms of how much effort you put into your bids, it's it's not It's not much it it makes your videos not worth it And then

But, yeah, if you look at the way you can pick up clients, if you've got one hundred thousand subscribers or whatever it is, it's like that percentage is just I'm trying to put a figure on it for you and I'm like, it's got to be at least You know, 10 to 20 Yeah, it's going to be at least around like 20 times the monetisation, I think ROB: From From non, not indirect sales, effectively, so

Yeah Ten, 10 or 20 per cent from Oh, five percent If it's 20 times, say, five percent from YouTube and the rest from the sideline businesses FREEZMA: Yeah, I would honestly say not even that it's not like 20 percent more, it's like 20 times more

Like, ROB: Yes So 5 percent of total Yeah, it would be from Youtube FREEZMA: Oh, yes, about five percent ROB: Yeah

FREEZMA: Yeah, exactly No Yes, I misunderstood you ROB: No, that's okay It's an interesting sort of thing, and I think a lot of content creators go in with no real plan because it does come from a bit of a an organic sort of approach

And it's just I wanna create content because I want to create content But there is a certain certain business sense even to posting YouTube content itself in terms of thumb nailing and and, you know, a little bit click baiting And effectively, YouTube's a big video search engine So, you know, it's it really takes some thought and some structure and strategy to get that right And have you, have you sort of had to adapt

But in particular, YouTube over time to to cater for that? FREEZMA: Definitely The last three years with YouTube is really, I'd say about three years ago was when that stuff really started to matter Before that, it was like you could literally put no effort into a thumbnail and entitle you a video and you'd still have a large percentage of your subscribers clicking Somehow, your vids would still end up with just as much views from recommended and people seen on search pages But now it's it's just so competitive in terms of capturing of the initial attention

There is just so many voices and people on the platform so that that's always been something where maybe I, I haven't adapted as well because I've always come from a place of just not overthinking content and just trying to organically, like, put out stuff But it's definitely gotten to you know over the last three years at that point where you really you actually have to structure the way you're at least going to put a title on your vids or the thumbnail before you even make the vid And you'll even see like I don't know I've a lot lately with people I know who used to just kind of organically do content similar to myself They've kind of gone in a lot more tunnel vision in terms of like like in terms of making the video itself very specific and just really talking about a specific topic which is mentioned in the thumbnail or title a few years ago was kind of like you could mention something in your thumbnail and title and you could have a 20 minute blog And then there's like two minutes where it kind of references to the thumbnail and title

Now I see a lot of people, you know, thinking in advance, like what's going to be a good video and then titling them, doing the thumbnail and then just making the whole video You know, the whole 10 to 20 minutes, like on that topic specifically So definitely the way content is being put out has definitely changed ROB: So, I mean, that's sort of becomes a fairly straightforward process if you're deliberately producing videos saying, you know how to lift a deadlift form or a training video or something like that But a lot of your content is vlogging as well

How does that play in and how can you sort of pre predict or preplan vlog to kind of cater for that niche? You know, do you have to sort of do things in your life deliberately for the vlog, or you know, or do you kind of just find a way to make it fit? FREEZMA: It is one of those things that even I'm trying to adapt to that now mentally, because my whole thing has always been Sometimes I feel torn between just trying to make some content and then or just showing what I'm actually doing any way because I don't even have to think about it, and it's just really authentic So, again, like I was saying, with a structured sales approach or the giving without expectation and building a brand, like it's those two things which is so different, but you just kind of have to find how you can work things together And that is sometimes it's not an easy answer

And a lot of the time you have people suit different styles Like, for me, I, I struggle sometimes I'll try like experiment and just make a vid on a specific topic But like for me, that just doesn't really come naturally because it's always But maybe that's just because I had so many years of it I didn't need to specifically come up with anything

I could just document my life and I'll get the results that way So just like that programming in my head is, you know, I'm trying to to to change it ROB: Guess it comes back to that that organic approach that you started with as well One thing I often note with vloggers and YouTubers in particular is the sort of the attrition rate of of content creators like they There seems to be a high element of burnout

And, you know, obviously, consistency is of production is something that's super important And if I'm not mistaken, I think you had a little break in in sort of in between your content career to some extent as well How important do you think consistency is? And you know, how much of a strain does that put on people in terms of, you know, if you're producing videos every every day or even every week? That's still a lot of production even doing this now, you know And it's a it's a fairly straightforward thing It's the energy that goes into it on both sides

Before the call After the call You know, it's huge if you're doing that as a vlog and you're showing aspects of your life throughout the day That's a pretty huge burden to take FREEZMA: Yeah, yeah, that definitely is, and that's something that's

Yeah, like I agree Like the consistency is the people who you see most successful on any platform, whether it's Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, it is that consistency of, I think, being very Instead of being so generalised so here's here's my problem is I've kind of built I've built in audience who liked me from over the years, I've kind of moved with what I've been consistent and so some there's been points of my life where I've been really consistent for a couple of years and fitness and putting that out to my audience And then there was a couple of years where I went off fitness altogether and I just was making entertaining vlogs And then I was kind of picking up new audiences from these different things

And then now I've kind of got like this mixed audience where sometimes if I post, you know, fitness specific video, I've lost the audience of the people who have just joined because I wanted to be entertained And it goes vice versa as well with the other things and as other people a lot of people I know, like my vids, especially my a lot of my original vids I was doing I was kind of going very deep into topics on life and talking about things that most other people were really talking about and then that kind of audience that people really just love that content But honestly, I feel like it's left me in a spot now, like I'm not Growing as much as I would like, because I feel like I've been too dispersed over too much stuff when I really look at people who are successful in terms of at least growing their channels It's when they just consistently in line with a certain way of posting or a topic or is it is really just kind of catering to that niche

Like, every time you post something, people almost know what it's about already because you always post about that And I feel like For me, like sometimes I wish I could just be like that But for me, I just I've got so many sides to me that I can't just go down that route at least authentically

ROB: I think it's a bit of a challenge from a personal aspect I can assume because we do evolve over time and what's important to us, what we're focused on can be important And if you're deliberately catering for a specific audience and what they want to see, you know, and we see that with content creators, especially in particular niche say, you know, prominent vegan YouTubers or something who decide maybe that's not for them anymore And they come out and they they basically lose their audience overnight because they go in a different direction And and they may be one of the more extreme cases of that happening

But say you go from training videos to yeah philosophy about life, which, you know, I've seen happen with a few channels and they have, you know, two, three million subscribers in some case, but maybe their video gets 5000 views now And, you know, you can see how, you know, the impact that that that that that's having But you go back a little bit and they've got, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of views on on some of these videos So I guess it's yeah You kind of have to roll with it, but you carry your audience with you as much as you can

FREEZMA: Yeah, yeah, exactly I'm like fortunate, I feel like I've got it good Like most of my audience, I think can appreciate the fact that I've got so many different sides But in terms of like just strategically, if you're just all about business and trying to grow your brand for your business I think it is very important to just niche down and just try to own that niche and put out just like consistent content that people always kind of know what they are getting from you

And then that way as well, like if you're trying to sell a product on the back of it People know how much, you know, consistently you've put out on one piece of you know, like in one industry or whatever it is that like you're kind of their go to purchase, you know, for that person ROB: Makes sense FREEZMA: But then again, like like for me, I just can't authentically just like for me, I think because I've come from a spot of being able to just put out content and grow my audience with just whatever I feel like putting out in the early days because it's changed so much Like like I said, I've kind of got that the way of thinking in my head where it's

Yeah, just its just different to how it is now See, most people now they're looking at these avenues in terms of like this is just business opportunity and what's the opportunity here? But for me, I haven't even come into that Into this space with that So it's something I like learn as it develops and I see it And then sometimes I kind of go with it and say, OK, I need to start doing this now

And now other times I'm just like, I don't want to do this So why should I? ROB: Yeah, you want to put out the content that you want to put out, not just to toe the line and make a couple of bucks FREEZMA: Honestly, you'll find, you'll find a lot of sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you But yeah, you find a lot of people that end up very unhappy because they're they've moved on personally from the content that they're putting out and their audience is demanding, but the audience is demanding and like they feel almost trapped You know what I mean? I've seen that happen to a few friends of mine and even just big people

And around the place you see it ROB: Makes sense Well, yeah And then that sort of forced to put out the content that they don't want to just to keep the money coming in FREEZMA: Yeah

Or if they do pivot off, like like you said You see them just lose all their views and a lot of people tune out So it's it's It's an interesting thing Social media

ROB: I suppose because it's it's sort of, you know, it revolves around yourself as well So it's not like you can, you know, sell the channel and and go off and do something else, you know FREEZMA: Yeah ROB: You know, you might but it may not be too successful for the person that takes it over because they're really invested in you That's one thing that we often do in business is look for like joint venture partnerships and things like that and how two businesses can work together

And I saw you do something similar with Vitruvian Physique, which is actually how you became how you came on my radar Where you you basically made a video about him And so for those of us watching who don't know who this is, this is another YouTuber who is based in Canada And so I'm curious to know, was there a real deliberate kind of you know, we see YouTubers do a lot of collaboration videos and that sort of thing Was there a deliberate sort of reach out there to try and make something happen? Or would it just really come from a genuine place and it had you know good benefits from there? FREEZMA: Yeah, that was that was cool, honestly, with that

I mean, collaboration is so strong in the field of of YouTube, you know, like if you're struggling to get on people, you know, in terms of doing popular videos or something that's coming up on people's recommended If you don't have, like my momentum or if you lose about momentum, you know, if you can be featured on another person's channel who has a very active audience, you know, it's a very powerful thing And that's why I see a lot of people on YouTube They coordinate to do collaborations and make very specific arrangements to do it But yeah, like with me, I've never gone down that route of trying to collaborate with many people, and, again, whether that's something that maybe I shouldn't have, I don't know

I remember there was a point a few years ago where I saw a lot of people collaborating and then, you know, I'm on the other side of the industry So I kind of know Motives behind everything and I don't know I know people would just organising to collab just just in terms of the business point of view They weren't actually friends

They didn't actually have a relationship And it just kind of like it is what it is like that Which is why I never really reached out to people I only like to do collabs or anything like that if it's organic, but you when like me and Vitruvian did the back and forth video That was I mean, his video was the first one

He said that he was doing his comm prep and he was looking ahead at me, who is a few weeks ahead in terms of doing my comm prep, and then that was a source of, I guess, motivational competition or something to just kind of hold him a bit more accountable and push him So that was like not planned at all He just I just randomly saw the video ROB: I've actually got that backwards because he he actually did shout you out before you responded to him, didn't he? FREEZMA: Yeah, yeah, exactly, so and that was cool, I saw that video Oh, yeah

This is, you know, I wouldn't have known otherwise Like, I mean, I do I know you go like from from a few years ago when he first moved to the Gold Coast So he wasn't like a random guy I didn't know But where I think we did like maybe one or two vids back when I was on the Gold Coast But again, that was just after meeting up with them

And and just, you know, we kind of Well, I maybe we could collab or whatever, but, you know, I always want to meet a person before I just say, hey, let's collab It's like, you know, so we met up and trained a few times before hand, even before we first did a video together But I guess, yeah, this is like three years later And then he just randomly kind of gave me that feature on his channel, which was, you know, very appreciated for myself as a smaller YouTube channel

You know, I thought that was really cool And I I guess I did the other video back to him, which actually did get a lot of views and then a lot of his audience like yourself, you say, and even you saw me from me doing the vid about him Right? ROB: Yeah, exactly It's, um, and it's all about that exposure because, I mean, we we watch, especially in in the fitness industry, there's certain pockets where you may have half a dozen or a dozen prominent YouTubers all in the same You know, half of them even live together

And, you know, parts of Canada, parts of America especially Do you think that there's a real limit in opportunities for someone in Australia or New Zealand because we are halfway around the world? FREEZMA: Yes, it's definitely a lot harder down here ROB: Do you think that there is some benefit to being unique and stand out against perhaps, you know, sort of the American as well, like everyone everyone loves Aussies and Kiwis, right? FREEZMA: Yeah, I mean, you're asking some good questions Rob That's because it's funny, because this is stuff that I genuinely think about myself, you know But like, it's crazy because the American audience is just so huge that I would have thought maybe I would be interesting to Americans

And I thought You know, maybe I could grow a lot out of getting American subscribers, but I just don't think they understand, like the mass appeal of Americans I think they love other Americans ROB: Because I think it can go one way or the other as well Like I know a YouTuber in a very different industry Who is who is Sydney based, who has an extraordinary American audience and and as a

FREEZMA: I could never get it, Rob I tried ROB: Yeah I mean, maybe it's maybe a few more shout outs or, you know, FREEZMA: Maybe ROB: Got go, go and go and train with Christian Guzman or someone that

But you know what might happen So what do you think? What would you say over the last sort of 10 years, which is an extraordinary content career What would you say the biggest lesson that you've come out with is, you know, regarding anything whether its content focus or monetisation or or anything? FREEZMA: Biggest lesson That's another good question It's funny because when I when I came into the the field of putting out content and doing stuff online, like I said, it was when it wasn't popular to do so

So and there was not as much saturation in the market So in a sense, I was fortunate to To build my audience like I did and have the reach that I did and get the opportunities that I did But I definitely now looking back, I realise like Its interesting, I always try to think, hey, if I started if I had to start my YouTube channel from zero right now, like, would I be able to to do it again? Because the climate was so different back then

So the one thing I've learned I mean, I don't know something I'm like into the look at right now is just man Honestly, that's a tough question for me because I've learned so much But ROB: Top three, top three? FREEZMA: Top three

Yes, that's right I was going to say I was gonna say something along the lines of putting out something like authentic and always comes up But I know people that aren't authentic and they put out content and then they actually become really popular ROB: Sure

FREEZMA: Coming back from YouTube and social media and stuff like that I'm like one thing that I like as a lesson, I guess is Like why? You really You got me, like, deep in my head right now if you go from here ROB: How about how about I give you another question and maybe maybe something else will pop back in your head? I'm curious to know, obviously, where we touched on it at the start

We're in, you know, isolation in most parts And with Covid and that sort of the thing How as a personal trainer, has that affected you? Obviously, you you're like an online coach predominantly, I'm guessing more than in person So the physical changes haven't been so much But if you have all these personal trainers suddenly going online and the market becomes saturated with personal trainers because they can't work out of gyms, has there been an effect for someone like yourself who's been an online trainer for a longer time? FREEZMA: I don't think I've seen an effect in terms of any more competition coming in

But I feel like I've seen a lot of people who are PTs in the gym They're struggling more than ever because they lost everything and they haven't had the, I guess, existing platforms like I do But in saying that as well, even just a lot of their methods of training, predominantly based around gym equipment and, you know, barbells and like, you know, a full gym setup, basically So you're finding it even like myself A lot of my training was really based around that before we went into this situation

So for me, I at the start, I was adapting with, like, how how can I make bodybuilding workouts with water jugs, which is something people can have easy access to ROB: Sure, yeah FREEZMA: And I saw actually a lot of success from that You know, I drove a lot of people to my website for the free program, which I was giving away, which, again, there was no sell on There was no direct sell or sale strategy as opposed to I mean, I guess it's it's kind of a strategy in terms of you're giving people value

But again, it's with no expectations So I'm not expecting them to just, like, buy more stuff off me if they if they do see the value and then they see other stuff on my Web site They see my coaching there like, that's cool I actually have seen some purchases and new clients on the back of that that what I did there But yeah, like I was saying even even for that

Training with the water jugs and stuff that's just like an an adapt an adaptment So, like adapting what we you know, I had to do personally but then I started thinking, OK What other training can I do? So yeah Like, for me personally, these last four weeks I've been outside really just trying to expand my knowledge base Well, I can do a body weight training

Different varieties of, you know Anything I can do Just using my body like push ups is at least, you know, if you got some handles, medicine, ball and, you know, there's so many different variations and things you can do And like for me, I'm just trying to learn new ways to train and drill those in and get really good at those so that I can come out of this with more experience and, you know, an alternative way instead of just with the gyms and stuff like that But again, same for like usual, PTs who have lost their jobs and stuff

I guess they're either having to do the same or a lot of them are just screwed, you know ROB: But I guess you're you're able to put the time into adapting and, you know, improving knowledge and upgrading your programs and that sort of thing You've already got the sales processes and you've already got a good audience Well, that sort of thing So I guess they're playing catch up to you rather than you seeing an influx of new competition

FREEZMA: Yeah Yeah, it is definitely a bit more like that, but and saying that as well, it's not like I think, yeah, even for for the first couple of weeks of this, I mean, I'm just speaking for myself personally, I felt Yeah, my business was affected in terms of even just with the majority of people tightening up with with their money And I know a lot of friends of mine who do online coaching and they've already had a big customer base

And they do weekly payments of people also going to one friend, you know This is his his livelihood and income and everything is his online coaching And he lost seventy five percent of his clients ROB: Wow FREEZMA: Just like that pretty much in the first couple of weeks of this going down with people saying, hey, we've lost their jobs or whatever the cases And that happens to a lot of people

But again, I guess it's just being able to provide people an alternative, I know for him, I know a lot of his stuff Was gym based online coaching, which, you know, people don't have access to the gyms anymore So if you can get a real fast turnaround in terms of, hey, don't worry that we don't have a gym, I can offer you some kind of relief in terms of, you know, really good body weight, home workout So just something where you can really just Justify how you can keep helping someone through this time

And if you can't do that, you're screwed And I've still and I've seen a lot of online coaches that were really quick on doing that and making that change and seeing what they could do at home with resistance bands and not much And then really putting that on display in terms of their advertising and their marketing So, you know, people have been screwed who haven't been able to adapt fast enough and there's people who have been OK because they've adapted pretty quick But for me personally as well, like I said, I started off with, water jugs, which, you know, has helped a lot of people, I think

Well, you know, I know from messages I've got the amount of sign ups since my Website ROB: Yeah, right FREEZMA: To get that, you know, those free programs But for me personally, again, that wasn't enough I wanted to see what else I can do So the last four weeks I've just been practicing with so many new, different ways of training outdoors and and seeing what I can do with my body

And I'm not putting that out in a program or anything yet because I want to put myself through it to see how effective it really is or how I can really make a great program from new stuff I'm learning But yeah, it's just adapting isn't it yeah ROB: So awesome So one curiosity I've got as well, because you didn't intend to go into, say, merchandising it It was sort of a monetisation exercise or, you know, a revenue exercise

Were there any challenges in terms of, you know, finding finding retailers, managing stock? You know, all that sort of thing? Because that's all It's quite a lot to learn in a short space of time And if you get the formula wrong, it can cost you a lot of money too FREEZMA: Yeah, it's interesting you say that, too You might not know, Rob, but for me, my clothing brand was before my social media

ROB: I didn't know that FREEZMA: Yeah Yeah So lot, because here's here's the issue, like a lot of people, have come into these spaces and building online audiences and then they get into their merch and all that kind of stuff But there's a difference between merch and then an actual clothing company which sits ROB: Of course

FREEZMA: On its own brands You know what I mean? So, yeah, a lot of the time someone does merch as an extension of themselves And there's like a way to monetise on what they're putting out, whether it's entertaining, content, whatever it is for me I've always had my clothing brand, so that's been before I've put out any contents online I always wanted to make my brands

And so I made my brand before I was even putting out active content on Facebook and that kind of stuff But even so, he has come back to your questions It's been a huge process of you learn you learn a lot A lot of the thing the thing with clothing is and I've heard people say this before us, it's almost like the low hanging fruit of entrepreneurship, especially for young people I think they get excited

They see clothing brands are like and they like, well, I can make this design on a shirt and then I can sell my own brands and be an entrepreneur myself because it's not hard to do that But it's hard to consistently do that over years And, you know, develop new products like this There's a lot more to it And even just being on the edge with new designs and seeing what's coming in

And again as well, I think one big misconception people have with clothing is that let's say you can get a T-shirt printed for, let's say like fourteen, fifteen dollars Australian or whatever it is, and then you can sell it for 40 that or 45 or even 50 that you have got that profit margin But a lot of people don't realise there's more to it than just the the margins on the product itself And it's you know, it's it's, you know, paying a videographer to create a marketing campaign or something like that, paying a model or at least giving them a shirt or something, which, you know, everything you're doing is offsetting that margin of what you just might look at the one thing and say oh the margin is, 300 percent on this product So I'm going to be sweet And then when you have to divide this, say, fifty shirts into different sizes with percentages, you have to work out which percentage is going to sell the most, which is going to sell the least

And for every shirt that you don't sell, that's money that you haven't recuperated into your profit margin So there's just so much stuff like that that people just don't even think about So even for me, the issue has always been just refining, like especially about the sizing ratio, I think is a big one that people I think is if if you get too many size smalls and then none of them sell, but you sold heaps of larges, all the smalls you didn't sell offset your profit margin pretty heavy from the ones you did sell ROB: Yes And then you you get get stuck with stock that you just can't move regardless of how hard you try

FREEZMA: And you can't move it I literally have in my cupboard, there is just so many size smalls of everything from the last four years of me running that over here They just literally all sitting in my cupboard I just took them off the website, I took all the smalls off And I don't do size smalls anymore

ROB: Well, I guess that's yeah, that some of that iterative model and you can refine the process over time And another thing, I suppose you have compared to someone just starting up You've learned those lessons already And so you can, you know, benefit more quickly out of out of something But

FREEZMA: Yeah, yeah, definitely ROB: So where do you see where do you see things going? And we still see a lot of confusion with Tik Tok And, you know, and Snapchat and everything and and while it, you can develop strategies for those most brands that we see playing, especially on Tik Tok They're just having a crack to see what comes out of it You know, you sort of watching those things closely or are you just focused on what's working for now and, you know, just put it keeping a bit of an eye on them

But not sure really what to do yet FREEZMA: Yeah, I'm pretty much in that that space of keeping a bit of an eye on it, dabbling with it Tik Tok is a real interesting what I've seen I mean, I was on it, maybe eight months ago And I started posting a couple of vids and got a little bit of traction, but then I just

I kind of stop posting, and I just put, you know, for whatever reason I was just taking a break from this is interesting to see now like Yeah 8 months later, you can see it's definitely a heavy player in the marketplace I'm seeing a lot of brands actually using it very successfully to get their clothes on people who have big followings and stuff Something I've noticed a lot lately

So there's definitely like opportunities And I think if you come if you come into any social media platform like you were saying, I think you summed it up quite well at the start of the chat You said in terms of the timeframes of what people might spend on each platform, you said like Instagram was just kind of like the, you know, zero to thirty seconds or whatever Facebook, maybe the ones ten minutes people will be doing stuff on and then YouTube's that ten minute plus vids again, Tik Tok is a new one as well where it's extra short isn't it So but it's, it's just you got to like anything you just got to analyse it

And see if you're looking at it as a business opportunity, as a way to maybe monetise off You just got to look at the characteristics of the platform and see what's it's pretty easy to see what will do well you know what I mean, that's just the way you've got to look at anything, isn't it? ROB: Yeah Exactly right And I think the interesting thing about anyone putting out content regularly with any decent success is that you you are effectively data analysts in a you know, in some way because you have to be looking at these statistics of what's performing and what's not, or you put all your energy, say, into Facebook content, as you said, that that maybe isn't getting the reach Whereas Instagram and YouTube is what you found works for you

Did you get any surprises along the way when you sort of looked at data and something's really over or underperformed unexpectedly? FREEZMA: I mean it I guess it's a good question But like, I feel like not Not really It's funny, like you almost you can say you think you gonna make a viral video

You think this is going to do great And then sometimes it flops But then in hindsight, when you see a viral video like, well, this is why viral is because of this, this and this But then you got to try to recreate that And and you can't sometimes there's an element of, yeah, when you can see what's working, it's like I that still works

But then sometimes you'll try and actually do something and you think it's going to work because the characteristics and it just doesn't So it's an interesting model You're always I guess you get just got to be experimenting, just trying to put put stuff in there and seeing how it goes Yes The only thing you can do isn't it

ROB: Yeah, I mean, one thing that we noticed with with client work in particular is, you know, the more authentic it is, the easier it is to produce and the more reliable the results So you may not get, say, you know, a million views, but if you can put out 100 videos that get 10000 views, then you still get there But that, you know, you can't predict that viral nature And, you know, so I guess, do you really advocate just, you know, doing what you know and sort of, you know, having a bit of a dabble in in something unique, but really just sort of sticking to the plan and evolving it over time gradually FREEZMA: Yeah, I think I think your best bet

And they need like let's say if you're a business or an individual, whatever Even me as an I'm a business and I'm an individual, but I'm still always trying to ideally You want to I want to be monetising and be able to make a living off what I do, obviously So I find that as long as you're just being authentic with the message that you want to put out or your business, if you're being authentic with the products, you want to put out what your products can do for people

That's all you can do I've been I've been down routes where I've tried to just get really, really popular and just try to be viral We'll see what's like trending or what's going on And I've ended up just failing at it Whether it's maybe it's done alright, but it hasn't done anything for my business

Maybe it's going to be a few more followers But is it even the followers that I want? Because someone gets a lot of views Doesn't mean they're all people that are going to buy your stuff If especially if it's something that you're doing something different to go viral, then it's not even in relation to your business You know what I mean? So I think that for anyone out there, like, that's really important to understand

Like you were saying before, we know people with millions of followers who struggle to monetise and they may know people with you, a few hundred followers or a few thousand just a couple of thousand followers and they monetise insanely well on these platforms And I think that's that's the main thing You just got to try not to get statistics of likes or views or whatever messed up with the statistics of your actual business ends You're, you know, margins and revenue you know ROB: Yeah, so, I mean, how important is it to to, you know, really find those genuine followers and, you know, how do you not get caught up in the metrics? You know, we ran an interesting experiment

I credit a brand new Instagram account, and we're actually making a video about this piece in a little while and paid one hundred and sixty dollars to get 10000 likes just to essentially gather data to prove this point And, you know, because you can you can poorly monetise, you know, followers And these guys don't care who I am, what I do You know, I think two and a half thousand of them have already fallen back off, you know, and And so it's it's hard as people not to get caught up in the vanity metrics of social media

You know, how do you kind of stay true to your purpose? And, you know, is it purely from that, you know, the sales data will prove you right? Or is it just are you just super Zen and and really just know what to do? FREEZMA: It's all as myself, even like for all the years I've had this that's been a big thing for me to shift my headspace around as the likes and the views and changing that into the perspective of because I've always associated popularity and massive attention with you're just definitely successful But what happens when you have to do something different to be popular or that that's not really in line with you or your business? You know what I'm saying? It just doesn't feel right and even Yeah Like, my biggest challenge over these last couple of years is just remembering and realising that There's my business and some like

Like sometimes I'll post a video on YouTube showing, like, my new Gym Steeze launch or something like that And the vid gets the least views out of all my vids for the last few months Yet I've managed to sell thousands of dollars of products But yeah, I'm thinking, oh, this look, this vid did shit, its only got ninety likes on my Youtube channel compared to usual maybe 200 likes or something like that Yet because of that vid I've made all this money yet I'm upset that it's got half the likes or views of one of my other vids

It's just it's kind of stupid ROB: I think it's the unseen metric of all this data as well, as you can say, the likes But you can never assume how much of that is converting into sales or, you know, through whatever means supporting that channel FREEZMA: Yes, and that's what's hard when you're doing stuff organically, when you've got actual marketing strategy and paying for advertising campaigns, construct and advertising campaigns You get that data all laid out to you

So and that's something that I'm kind of trying to understand and learn, because for me, I've always technically I've had it easy because I've had a good organic reach where I can make a living without having to pay for advertising But I'm now like, I'm trying to get my head around the the advertising model And because you can see it's it it's a bit less of a headache when you can actually see what's doing what and the exact numbers behind it whereas sometimes for me I struggle because it's It's just random You know what I'm saying? I don't know, sometimes I don't know what caused this month to be better than the last month cause, you know, for whatever reason

ROB: Didn't really change anything, it just just was I mean, I think one one interesting thing that you'll see is when you do start to, you know, move paid promotions and you've got a organic audience to springboard from anyway Typically, the conversion cost from the advertising will be much, much lower And it's sort of sort of helps activate your organic audience And it's sort of a supplement as opposed to, you know, someone starting from cold might be paying a dollar dollar to a click, but you might get to get it for 10 cents because you've got that warm audience

And, you know, and that FREEZMA: Yeah, yeah ROB: That rate of conversion will be so much higher So I think that's going to be FREEZMA: Yeah, yeah I mean, that's definitely true Like, there's been points I don't I haven't done much cold advertising with any of my stuff

But, you know, sometimes I I dabble in the Facebook ads platform and it's a lot easier for me to put my new Gym Steeze campaign or if I've got like a a Black Friday sale, I can put a little vid and just target it to people who already follow me And I've seen, you know, successful conversions like that without just running any testing because I'm just putting it at my audience ROB: And I think that's that's really the the value in the audience that you've got as well when you do want to put something out You can do it cost effectively and really quickly and get good results So we're coming up on time

And I've really enjoyed this chat For everyone who's watching or listening Or what about where can they find you and learn about Freezma Fitness? FREEZMA: Yeah, just I mean, I guess Youtube is always the best place to start, isn't it? ROB: Just a bit of a search on Freezma Fitness FREEZMA: You know, if you really want to know me you can go on YouTube and you'll really get to know me Go on Instagram

I guess you can still find me But everything's just Freezma, so ROB: Cool We'll put it in the show notes and thank you very much for your time Freezma Fitness

I really appreciate your insight into social and how it's changed And wish you all the best And we'll chat soon FREEZMA: No worries Thanks, Rob

Thanks for having me ROB: There you have it I hope you really enjoyed this episode And if you did, please like it Share it or leave us a review on your favourite platform

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Source: Youtube

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